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Roo Reynolds

> "Bobbie's and Roo's vision is fueled be the worldwide web of today, of course, which is perceived as one homogeneous environment, where you move freely from page to page from website to website. There is no such homogeneous web, though!"

I think the web is a perfect example of this blend actually. It's not homogonous, but it can seem that way because of the largely common underlying standards which allow anyone to plug in and develop at a number of different layers. You don't care who developed the web server your accessing, and you shouldn't have to; HTTP over TCP/IP is ubiquitous and everyone adheres nicely to HTTP. You can also pick between a number of browser clients, and most of the time the end results will be passably similar (because HTML and CSS are, with some exceptions, well adopted). Pick a layer, whether it's physical or abstract, and you can create another example.

> "But the results achieved by combining them are very, very different. Taking an element from one web page and transplanting it into a page on another website might be technically possible. But more often than not it wouldn’t fit there – because those sites use different metaphors, visual styles and even different technologies."

This is a good point, and why it's so funny to see people make what I hope are jokes about moving your Warcraft character into Second Life. The standards which will make it possible to move your avatar (inventory, wallet, friends list, ...) between worlds are key, but it makes little sense to think only in those terms.

And this, actually, is my point. *Just* having transferable avatars is still not enough. In fact, it does seem that I'm in agreement with Bobbie on this, and I loved his line about the situation in which "my avatar has to act as the hyperlink". We (and by we I mean the industry and the world) can do better than that.

The blurring of the boundaries between virtual worlds and the web as we already know it - with all its richness and variety yet common underlying standards - and the ability to do more than *just* super-teleport an avatar between worlds, that's where it gets really exciting.

Markus Breuer (Pham Neutra)

Roo, we probably do agree more than we disagree :)

What I wanted to emphasize was the fact, that, while there are some basic underlying standards (or quasi standards) which are the foundations of the web as we know it today, there is a lot of diversity on the upper layers. And that is not easily translateable between sites. Some of these not-easily-translateable elements are analoguous to avatars and inventory items, actually.

The funny remarks about avatars moving from WoW to Second Life have an important (and completely serious) core: the metaphors which virtual worlds present, the visual styles, the attributes of your ID (avatar), the functionalities of the platform and the client are very much different. And while there will be a convergence movement with some of these aspects, there might be a much greater diversity left even in the future, than some commentators envision today.

Actually it might cause more problems (anachronisms) for a Second Life avatar crossing into WoW (or Entropia) than vice versa.

It might be possible to circumvent some of these problems with "mappings". Other differences between platforms might prove to be rather stubborn ones ...

Many of these challenges are non-technical ones.

There are some interesting technical problems, to - which I am sure will be covered in the standardisation efforts - but where I don't see easy solutions: what about moving objects from platform to platform for example (especially between from a platform, where user get IP rights for their creations to a more laissez faire platform)? The DRM word raises its ugly head here.

Summary: Great initiative ... and a long hard road to travel :)

James Taylor

The thing that really stands out for me is when you say,

"Many of these challenges are non-technical ones."

Absolutely! The technical challenges can't be ignored but they never seem as complex in comparison.

It's good to see the current web get a mention as I really hope that these 'new' challenges are addressed with existing sites and services in mind- I already have online avatars and identities, from facebook to Amazon, and I hope they don't get forgotten. The appearance of your avatar in different spaces and virtual worlds is only one facet of your identity, and one which may vary- it's easy to see a fantasy warrior, a soccer player and a cartoon character all meeting up together in Sony Home, while donald duck might look a bit out of place in WoW! And, as Roo says, there is plenty more to it than that.

Exciting times.

Len Bullard

Information wants to be free.
Art wants to survive.

The author's sun is the language.
The platform distributes.

If the bargain is to use the tools to host on the site, the author demands a language or when the tools goes, so goes the expression.

Our history shows this. If the language had not been the basis for the VRML97 design, no expression of it would still be working twelve years later.

But VRML97 still does. X3D extends the power and range of integratibility of the VRML97 scene graph without losing the VRML. This has proceeded unbroken because care was taken in the language design to keep the existing content alive.

Isn't that marvelous?

IP-free unencumbered application of the language is the contract between the tool and the author. This frees expression from the tool and this is the freedom we as artists DEMAND.

A sun is the free energy of a universe. A language as generative tool is the free energy of our minds. A tool is and only ever is a means to express the language.

A sun gives warmth.
And it takes your life.
A language remembers.

Just Some Guy

Standards? They're great, for technologists.

Wherever possible, they should remain irrelevant to artists. By definition, they stand directly in the path of creativity.

Now, as to how to balance both of those and come away with something that is worthy of creativity - as well as works - well that I can't fit into a comment box. ;)

Good article.

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